Halo Reach Beta Forum
  • Subject: This game does not feel natural. It feels very forced.
Subject: This game does not feel natural. It feels very forced.
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We hired a team of testers who were members of Halo and Counterstrike leagues and had them play each other-a lot. When the complaining stopped, we knew we had it -Mitch Gitelman/ShadowRun

EDIT: For Bungie's front page update

I've Edited this a few times but these are the main complaints after Bungie addressed the ones that were already posted.

1. Movement speed. This needs to be increased. The jump would also benefit from just a slight increase. The default speed right now is just TOO slow. It prevents you from getting away from grenade spamming, and the strafe is nonexistent. To make this game feel a lot more natural the speed needs a boost.

2. The HUD. Bungie has addressed this but i want to make a note. The current HUD is really damn messy. It's hard to read, and it's constantly plagued with pop ups. I really do not care that my teammate killed so and so, please STOP popping these things up on screen to distract me from what is going on in front of me. Halo 2's HUD was simplistic, straight forward and it did the job right.

3. The DMR would benefit greatly from an extra 3 bullets or so. That or it needs less bloom and maybe more damage. I don't know, but something needs to be improved. It's just too inconsistent. The gun could be the best gun ever in Halo in terms of balance, and just overall enjoyability. Pulling off 5 shot kills is liken to that of pulling of 3 shots with the Pistol in Halo CE. The thing is, right now the DMR is just not very consistent even when your'e aiming well, it needs to be a bit more dominate. A few extra bullets could allow you to take down two unsuspecting foes instead of barely 1. I've heard community members here talk about how it takes more accuracy yada yada yada, yah but come on at one point or another you gotta ask "how many people are really dropping enemies with 5 shots?" it's too much. You're dealing with so many more variables in Reach than previous halo's and you wanna give us a gun that drops people on average of 7 shots and then you have to reload? Come on. I'm constantly reloading and missing kills by 1 shot because the person went into cover or sprinted away. I shouldn't have to do that when i'm hitting someone 5 times dead on and they aren't even suspecting it until the last min. These maps are so obstructed you rarely even get a 5 round clean shot on someone anyway.

4. Grenades: Bungie has addressed this.

5. Swordbase needs a complete overhaul. First, it's bland looking both in and out, and second it's confusing as hell. There needs to be some kind of distinction about which side you're on, where you're at, etc.

6. Some of the control schemes do not fit players needs. Some of the options are very unintuitive or do not work the same across all abilities. I suggest Bungie allow us to create our own layouts but for some reason they are against this, so i suggest giving us something that can work across all play styles but mainly the two that i think are hindered by the current options (Sprint/evade/jetpack)

This is my ideal layout and i'll tell you why it works. (i use something like this for shadowrun)

Layout:

-Right trigger: Shoot
-Left Trigger: Ability (this is ideal for jetpack users because they can shoot more naturally and with the below change also throw grenades)
-Right Bumper: Grenades (this is the most optimal because you can still use a jetpack without letting go of the throttle It also works on a subconscious level because you have to let go of the trigger to throw the grenade just like your avatar on screen does)
-Left bumper (i'd just stick grenade toggle on here, reload could also go here but for the sake of making it feel at least somewhat comparable to the previous games, it'd be a safe bet to stay with the grenade toggle) I've seen some people suggest to use this as jump but that's a bad idea because under Sprint Ability you wouldn't be able to execute the Sprint+jump very well.
-Y: switch weapons
-X:reload
-A:jump
-B:melee

See, what this does is allow the most optimal scenario to use your ability with out hindering everything else. It also keeps the fundamentals "X,Y,A,B" unchanged, and should be pretty easy to pick up and get used to.

A lot of the suggestions I see do exactly what bungie does, and that's not just change one thing, but change a lot of other things to make it too drastic for someone wanting to switch.

Things Reach is doing well

1.Shotgun is superb. This is a very well balanced shotty, excellent job here.

2. AR is fine. It's a nice balance of support weapon/splash weapon that isn't too powerful but in the right situation it works.

3. Jetpacks rule.

4. Sprint function works very nicely.

5. Needler is fine. most covy guns are fine actually

6. Beam rifle is good, not too powerful, but does the job and it looks and sounds cool.



So, yeah, the main things to really help this game out are: movement speed, dmr improvement, grenade damage reduction, and HUD rework.

Bungie needs to realize (i know they have a hard time) that for the most part people do not play in very nice communicative teams. You shoudln't design the game around "team" and instead allow individual skill to shine through. Good teams will always overcome 1 or 2 all stars so you don't need to hinder the individual. Too much emphasis is placed on team shooting when it should be about individual shooting first.

After these very fundamental changes the game can fly by Halo 3.

But in all honesty I think all of these posts are for nothing. Going by what Bungie has already posted on the front page they could careless what the community thinks about "design" decisions because they are the "professionals" haha, the ones that never seem to know how to balance their game and have to leave it up to other more capable groups of individuals to do so (MLG).

Bungie has shown that they rather the individual feel like a mouse rather than a pit bull, what other reason would they have for making us move like snails?

I know it's all for nothing but whatever, Bungie I hope you understand this game moves at a crawl and people do not want to feel stuck in the mud.

The number 1 complaint on Reach after grenades (which this adds to the frustration from the grenades) is MOVEMENT SPEED.

Please, players like to feel like they can actually travel around the map at a respectable pace and not like a snail wearing 100 pound armor.

[Edited on 05.09.2010 12:16 PM PDT]

  • 05.01.2010 10:53 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

There's more of a learning curve in Reach, don't dismiss it because you can't pick up on it in an hour.

  • 05.01.2010 10:55 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

no this game is amazing. you obviously have horrible taste in games

  • 05.01.2010 10:55 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
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Amen brother.

  • 05.01.2010 10:55 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
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Posted by: I SgtLegend I
When we are host you ALWAYS get green bar

Posted by: shooooup
no this game is amazing. you obviously have horrible taste in games


DURRR YOUR TASTE IS DIFFERENT THAN MINE, YOU HAVE HORRIBLE TASTE DURRRR

  • 05.01.2010 10:56 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

ya and all the new additions fit in really well ya maybe on your first game you are confused but really? trying to compaire it to MW2? I have played that game a bunch and i still dont know what the hell is going on half the time!

ps. needler rifle and focus beam FTW!

  • 05.01.2010 10:56 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

Really? I adjusted in 1 game.

Armor abilities seem natural to use; it was almost as if I always had them. Bloom just takes a mental adjustment in how you use your weapons.

I agree with the bit about movement speed, clip size, and grenade damage. Those all make for frustrating gameplay. I think the grenades will be fine if they up the movement speed to around how it was in Halo 1. This'll balance them out because you'll actually be able to dodge them. If you up the movement speed, either clip size or damage per shot on the precision weapons will need to be upped to make up for decreased accuracy due to faster strafing speeds.

If you do this, Reach will be a GREAT game. Possibly rivaling Halo 1.

[Edited on 05.01.2010 10:59 PM PDT]

  • 05.01.2010 10:56 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

~Beauty of Simplicity~

I freaking love this game -- it's the Halo I wanted 3 to be, and it feels very natural.

  • 05.01.2010 10:56 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
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The Definitive Guide to Halo 3's Forge - All you ever wanted to know about the in's and out's of Forge. Truly extensive.

Staff Member of Mythical Group and Forge-Union

Posted by: Mastershake324
There's more of a learning curve in Reach, don't dismiss it because you can't pick up on it in an hour.
I agree.

  • 05.01.2010 10:57 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

I can't fly with pigeons, gotta soar with eagles
A wise man told me vultures don't war with seagulls

ROCAFELLA 4VER HOV 4 LIFE
FIRST DEBUT CLASSIC FIRST ALBUM 4 MICS
IT SHOULDA GOT A FIVE BUT THEY LACKED 4SIGHT

Posted by: shooooup
no this game is amazing. you obviously have horrible taste in games


this game is an ok game that can be made into a great game if bungie wises up and fixes it

  • 05.01.2010 10:57 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

Posted by: DanceGavinDance
Posted by: shooooup
no this game is amazing. you obviously have horrible taste in games


DURRR YOUR TASTE IS DIFFERENT THAN MINE, YOU HAVE HORRIBLE TASTE DURRRR


yeah pretty much

  • 05.01.2010 10:57 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
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We hired a team of testers who were members of Halo and Counterstrike leagues and had them play each other-a lot. When the complaining stopped, we knew we had it -Mitch Gitelman/ShadowRun

Posted by: Mastershake324
There's more of a learning curve in Reach, don't dismiss it because you can't pick up on it in an hour.


Learning curve? No, it's not about learning anything, it's about a frustrating unintuitive experience.

I don't WANT to shoot a bullet patiently with a pistol while i'm being attacked from multiple sides... how dumb is that? The skill based weapons in this game force you to shoot slow as hell, for what? so i can die by some douche running at me from the side with a hammer or Ar or some other splash damage weapon?

spare me the crap.

[Edited on 05.01.2010 10:58 PM PDT]

  • 05.01.2010 10:57 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

wah. People are going to hate every game no matter what. You are that person. Don't blame it on the game.

  • 05.01.2010 10:57 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

There are 350,000 Halo 3 Colonels

I had the urge to have an opinion the other day, so I called my sponsor and he came over. We talked until that urge went away.

Posted by: Elixir of Life
I'm coming from playing a far more complex game (ShadowRun) in terms of control layout.


ShadowRun is the greatest FPS of all time. Not even Halo CE or Halo 2 can touch SR.

I was hoping that Reach would play like ShadowRun with these new classes but from what I am hearing this is far from the truth.

  • 05.01.2010 10:57 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

Posted by: Implausible
Posted by: Elixir of Life
I'm coming from playing a far more complex game (ShadowRun) in terms of control layout.


ShadowRun is the greatest FPS of all time. Not even Halo CE or Halo 2 can touch SR.

I was hoping that Reach would play like ShadowRun with these new classes but from what I am hearing this is far from the truth.



that's why it got such a great rating right?

  • 05.01.2010 10:58 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

I can't fly with pigeons, gotta soar with eagles
A wise man told me vultures don't war with seagulls

ROCAFELLA 4VER HOV 4 LIFE
FIRST DEBUT CLASSIC FIRST ALBUM 4 MICS
IT SHOULDA GOT A FIVE BUT THEY LACKED 4SIGHT

for the last time people THE BLOOM RUINS ALL THE SKILL BASED WEAPONS IN THE GAME. they force you to slow down your shots and let the AR charging bad people get you

  • 05.01.2010 10:58 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

I can't fly with pigeons, gotta soar with eagles
A wise man told me vultures don't war with seagulls

ROCAFELLA 4VER HOV 4 LIFE
FIRST DEBUT CLASSIC FIRST ALBUM 4 MICS
IT SHOULDA GOT A FIVE BUT THEY LACKED 4SIGHT

Posted by: a few papercuts
Posted by: Implausible
Posted by: Elixir of Life
I'm coming from playing a far more complex game (ShadowRun) in terms of control layout.


ShadowRun is the greatest FPS of all time. Not even Halo CE or Halo 2 can touch SR.

I was hoping that Reach would play like ShadowRun with these new classes but from what I am hearing this is far from the truth.



that's why it got such a great rating right?


lol ratings. they dont mean anything. i can guarantee anyone who works for one of those places and played halo 3 sucks at it. all of the video reviews ive ever seen involve AR charging lone wolves nonsense

[Edited on 05.01.2010 11:00 PM PDT]

  • 05.01.2010 11:00 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

Posted by: Elixir of Life

Learning curve? No, it's not about learning anything, it's about a frustrating unintuitive experience.

I don't WANT to shoot a bullet patiently with a pistol while i'm being attacked from multiple sides... how dumb is that? The skill based weapons in this game force you to shoot slow as hell, for what? so i can die by some douche running at me from the side with a hammer or Ar or some other splash damage weapon?

spare me the crap.
Don't shoot slow.

Spray quick shots until shields break, wait, headshot. It kills much faster than the H3 br.

  • 05.01.2010 11:00 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
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We hired a team of testers who were members of Halo and Counterstrike leagues and had them play each other-a lot. When the complaining stopped, we knew we had it -Mitch Gitelman/ShadowRun

Posted by: Implausible
Posted by: Elixir of Life
I'm coming from playing a far more complex game (ShadowRun) in terms of control layout.


ShadowRun is the greatest FPS of all time. Not even Halo CE or Halo 2 can touch SR.

I was hoping that Reach would play like ShadowRun with these new classes but from what I am hearing this is far from the truth.



It's not like ShadowRun. You can't counter any ability with another ability. The armor lock is a prime example of one of the dumbest abilities of all time. The guy goes into armor lock and you just sit there waiting, or your teammates start lobbying grenades at him lmao.

I think bungie just said "man that looks cool, lets throw it in!"

Like I said before the main problem with this game is there's no counter play style. It's fine if they wanted to make the pistol and DMR focus weapons that you had to shoot patiently and accurately like the ShadowRun rifle but the fact that you can't get away from a potential enemy that is flanking you from the side makes it a one ridiculously frustrating and not very fun experience.

  • 05.01.2010 11:00 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

don't send me group invites

Posted by: a few papercuts
Posted by: Implausible
Posted by: Elixir of Life
I'm coming from playing a far more complex game (ShadowRun) in terms of control layout.


ShadowRun is the greatest FPS of all time. Not even Halo CE or Halo 2 can touch SR.

I was hoping that Reach would play like ShadowRun with these new classes but from what I am hearing this is far from the truth.



that's why it got such a great rating right?
only multiplayer games on consoles tend not to do so well ratings-wise

  • 05.01.2010 11:00 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: [none]
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The Definitive Guide to Halo 3's Forge - All you ever wanted to know about the in's and out's of Forge. Truly extensive.

Staff Member of Mythical Group and Forge-Union

Posted by: Elixir of Life
Posted by: Mastershake324
There's more of a learning curve in Reach, don't dismiss it because you can't pick up on it in an hour.


Learning curve? No, it's not about learning anything, it's about a frustrating unintuitive experience.
Then obviously you haven't learned how to play the game effectively.

I don't WANT to shoot a bullet patiently with a pistol while i'm being attacked from multiple sides... how dumb is that?
If you are being attacked from all sides, you're gonna die anyways. It's all about skill and rewarding precision.

The skill based weapons in this game force you to shoot slow as hell, for what?
So you can use other weapons and not rely on only one weapon?

so i can die by some douche running at me from the side with a hammer or Ar or some other splash damage weapon?

spare me the crap.
If you didn't notice them coming, you'd be dead anyways. I don't get your logic here.

  • 05.01.2010 11:01 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

Posted by: a few papercuts
Posted by: Implausible
Posted by: Elixir of Life
I'm coming from playing a far more complex game (ShadowRun) in terms of control layout.


ShadowRun is the greatest FPS of all time. Not even Halo CE or Halo 2 can touch SR.

I was hoping that Reach would play like ShadowRun with these new classes but from what I am hearing this is far from the truth.



that's why it got such a great rating right?
According to your service record you haven't played the BETA. Why are you even in this forum?

To the OP: I feel the same, except.. I whore Armor Lock like it's not going to be there tomorrow.

  • 05.01.2010 11:03 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

Posted by: thezerofire
Posted by: a few papercuts
Posted by: Implausible
Posted by: Elixir of Life
I'm coming from playing a far more complex game (ShadowRun) in terms of control layout.


ShadowRun is the greatest FPS of all time. Not even Halo CE or Halo 2 can touch SR.

I was hoping that Reach would play like ShadowRun with these new classes but from what I am hearing this is far from the truth.



that's why it got such a great rating right?
only multiplayer games on consoles tend not to do so well ratings-wise
Most people who rate games are terrible at them and don't know what makes a game good. All they really care about are the graphics, story, soundtrack, and "gameplay", which they rate based on the amount of gimmicky, shiny, features there are instead of good game mechanics and competitive merit.

[Edited on 05.01.2010 11:03 PM PDT]

  • 05.01.2010 11:03 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
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We hired a team of testers who were members of Halo and Counterstrike leagues and had them play each other-a lot. When the complaining stopped, we knew we had it -Mitch Gitelman/ShadowRun

Posted by: a few papercuts
Posted by: Implausible
Posted by: Elixir of Life
I'm coming from playing a far more complex game (ShadowRun) in terms of control layout.


ShadowRun is the greatest FPS of all time. Not even Halo CE or Halo 2 can touch SR.

I was hoping that Reach would play like ShadowRun with these new classes but from what I am hearing this is far from the truth.



that's why it got such a great rating right?


Ladies and gentlemen i present to you the poster of the day! lmao, ratings, by a bunch of gaming journalists that don't even know how to play half the shooters they pick up to review. Watch a gaming critic pick up Halo and see how well they do.

have you even played ShadowRun? Hell, have you even played the Reach beta? Are you just a bungie kid comin in her to defend daddy? Get a grip.

  • 05.01.2010 11:03 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
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The Definitive Guide to Halo 3's Forge - All you ever wanted to know about the in's and out's of Forge. Truly extensive.

Staff Member of Mythical Group and Forge-Union

Posted by: BeMeOrDieTryin2
for the last time people THE BLOOM RUINS ALL THE SKILL BASED WEAPONS IN THE GAME. they force you to slow down your shots and let the AR charging bad people get you
Why does the pistol win almost all the time then? Shoot fast at the body, then aim for the head and pop. Not hard. And you'll still be the better player, and have taken more skill to do so.

  • 05.01.2010 11:04 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas