Halo Reach Beta Forum
  • Subject: Halo Reach Bloom is Pointless
Subject: Halo Reach Bloom is Pointless

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Posted by: EVIL X YODA
Posted by: Moldy Pepper

How would you expect a focus rifle to feel?


...As I said, understanding this game is based far into the future. Yes, there are weapons like the focus rifle, and many more, that realism isn't exactly defined. But when you have weapons like the Pistol, the DMR, and AR, they can have realism defined by there real world counterparts, or similar like counterparts. Obviously, with this being so far into the future it won't be 100% like today, but still with the same kind of principle.


There are many things I hate on these forums that mindless sheep who are blinded by Bungie's loyalty constantly say...

...and one of them is trying to incorporate "realism" into Halo games.

Since when did realism = fun in Halo games? The Halo 1 Magnum could scope people across maps, was that real? The Halo 3 AR had like a 3 foot effective range, was that real? ALL Halo games you can jump and no scope people across the map, was that real?

Stop. Using. Realism. As. A. Means. Of. Justifying. Poor. Gameplay. Decisions.

  • 05.20.2010 8:07 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

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n00b question, but wht is Bloom?

  • 05.20.2010 8:08 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: Unk55 the beast
Bloom has been in every single Halo game since CE. It just has never been visualized. Bungie did that so that when you're spamming the trigger without any bloom your not complaining about why you aren't getting the kill.


You're an idiot. You believe everything bungie tells you? You really think there was bloom on the pistol when people pulled the trigger for each shot? come now... play the game.. The DMR has bloom even when pulling the trigger for each shot...

Each weapon if the trigger was HELD down it would be sporadic.. the AR, if you held the trigger, the bullets would be less accurate... if you paced your shots they would be MORE accurate...

Same with pistol.. if you held the trigger.. you would have a similar bloom affect which was fine for the noobies who thought just running and holding the trigger worked.... If you paced the trigger your shot would be dead on..

I can understand the bloom if the trigger was held down for the DMR.. but there should be absolutely no bloom for pulling the trigger rapidly.. just make it a set speed the shot is fired if you are pacing.. but make it faster than the DMR allows you too at the current moment if you want to get that perfect shot..

Our biggest complaint is that the bloom takes TOO LONG. It doesn't reward somebody who is accurate at shooting their weapon. If the bloom went back to it's accurate state at the same rate as the BR or Halo CE pistol it would be better... all they'd need to do from there is make it a 4 shot kill instead of 5.. (I'd prefer TSK to make it more like the perfectly balanced Halo CE game where good players used all the weapons except the needler).

  • 05.20.2010 8:15 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: Lenex lfc
n00b question, but wht is Bloom?


I agree with you.. that is a noob question. Bloom is something bungie put in to hinder the skilled player and allow the noobs time to run for cover.

  • 05.20.2010 8:16 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: UNKNOWN iXi
Posted by: EVIL X YODA
Posted by: Moldy Pepper

How would you expect a focus rifle to feel?


...As I said, understanding this game is based far into the future. Yes, there are weapons like the focus rifle, and many more, that realism isn't exactly defined. But when you have weapons like the Pistol, the DMR, and AR, they can have realism defined by there real world counterparts, or similar like counterparts. Obviously, with this being so far into the future it won't be 100% like today, but still with the same kind of principle.


There are many things I hate on these forums that mindless sheep who are blinded by Bungie's loyalty constantly say...

...and one of them is trying to incorporate "realism" into Halo games.

Since when did realism = fun in Halo games? The Halo 1 Magnum could scope people across maps, was that real? The Halo 3 AR had like a 3 foot effective range, was that real? ALL Halo games you can jump and no scope people across the map, was that real?

Stop. Using. Realism. As. A. Means. Of. Justifying. Poor. Gameplay. Decisions.


First of all, this is completely unnecessary. There are also many things which I hate about these forums, and one of them is someone like you. You state something, but give no reason as to why you say it. You come in and act like a kid, and not state anything constructive. Like your opinion is all that matters. It is just that, an opinion, just like mine is. Just because you think it is a poor decision, doesn't mean it is. I know a lot of people who like realism, and on the flip side I know my fair share who hate realism in halo. My opinion, is that even though it is far in the future, it is a gun, so I want it to act relatively close to a gun. Since when did realism not equal fun in Halo? Once again, that is your opinion, and I respect it, but at the same token, why can't you respect other peoples opinions? Just because we are in a way defending a decision made by Bungie, doesn't make us "mindless sheep blinded by Bungie loyalty". I don't play Halo because Bungie makes it, I play Halo because I like it.

  • 05.20.2010 8:18 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: UNKNOWN iXi
Posted by: EVIL X YODA
Posted by: Moldy Pepper

How would you expect a focus rifle to feel?


...As I said, understanding this game is based far into the future. Yes, there are weapons like the focus rifle, and many more, that realism isn't exactly defined. But when you have weapons like the Pistol, the DMR, and AR, they can have realism defined by there real world counterparts, or similar like counterparts. Obviously, with this being so far into the future it won't be 100% like today, but still with the same kind of principle.


There are many things I hate on these forums that mindless sheep who are blinded by Bungie's loyalty constantly say...

...and one of them is trying to incorporate "realism" into Halo games.

Since when did realism = fun in Halo games? The Halo 1 Magnum could scope people across maps, was that real? The Halo 3 AR had like a 3 foot effective range, was that real? ALL Halo games you can jump and no scope people across the map, was that real?

Stop. Using. Realism. As. A. Means. Of. Justifying. Poor. Gameplay. Decisions.


The military losing their most versatile weapon (the M6D) in Halo 2 and 3. The military not incorporating camo, armor lock, jet pack, or sprint ability on master chiefs new armor.. the covenant taking out the stun ability from their plasma weapons... should I go on about how unrealistic bungie is?

Bungie mistakenly had it right the first time. They created a perfectly balanced game.

Weapons spawned on a set timer.. created balance

Weren't in position to get the next set of power weapons? It's OK.. Just blow them to you.. created balance..

Making a versatile weapon where a skilled player can DEFEND himself against any weapon used by a less skilled player... created balance..

3 key things that made Halo: Combat Evolved the best game ever.. all changed and taken out in the other games.. Trickle DOWN bungie... don't trickle up.. you can't create balance gameplay starting with the noobs and working up..

  • 05.20.2010 8:24 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

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Bloom is the best thing to happen to Halo. All anyone does is spray and pray. With bloom you can't do that. The more skilled and patient person almost ALWAYS wins.

  • 05.20.2010 8:27 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

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Posted by: EVIL X YODA
First of all, this is completely unnecessary. There are also many things which I hate about these forums, and one of them is someone like you. You state something, but give no reason as to why you say it. You come in and act like a kid, and not state anything constructive. Like your opinion is all that matters. It is just that, an opinion, just like mine is. Just because you think it is a poor decision, doesn't mean it is. I know a lot of people who like realism, and on the flip side I know my fair share who hate realism in halo. My opinion, is that even though it is far in the future, it is a gun, so I want it to act relatively close to a gun. Since when did realism not equal fun in Halo? Once again, that is your opinion, and I respect it, but at the same token, why can't you respect other peoples opinions? Just because we are in a way defending a decision made by Bungie, doesn't make us "mindless sheep blinded by Bungie loyalty". I don't play Halo because Bungie makes it, I play Halo because I like it.


Ok let me ask you one question.

Did you like any of the Halo games at all? Halo 1-3 or even ODST? Heck, even Reach?

If you did, then you would agree with my argument and realize that what you say is unnecessary regarding the whole "realism" thing...

[Edited on 05.20.2010 8:34 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2010 8:33 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

bloom, slow movement, and short jump height killed halo: reach for me. The game despite having many new cool features and necessary fixes sucks due to the 3 huge errors in teh halo formula

  • 05.20.2010 8:44 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: Twinkerdoodle
Bloom is the best thing to happen to Halo. All anyone does is spray and pray. With bloom you can't do that. The more skilled and patient person almost ALWAYS wins.


Tell me why everybody who likes bloom is mediocre at best in terms of Halo? I'm not one to typically point out "rank".. but there seems to be a trend.. anybody below a level 45 tends to LOVE bloom.. and most of the time they even LOVE the armor lock.. the reason is the same for each..

It helps them survive longer..

But they all post the same reasons for liking the changes... "Bloom is the best thing to happen to Halo. All anyone does is spray and pray" uhh.. If player A who is better at the game is facing player B who is mediocre, and they are both using the M6D pistol from Halo CE to fight.... and player B was spray and praying with the pistol, while player A was pacing his shots but still shooting just as fast.. player A would win.

In Halo Reach.. same scenario but with DMR.. there is a great chance that player B could win because the bullets shoot out at random. If player A tries to time shots and wait for bloom to decrease, while player B is praying and spraying.. Player B has the potential to hit all of his shots because they are random.. even if not all, and just most.. he could still shoot more bullets faster and kill player A out of luck.

If player A is shooting player B with an M6D pistol across the map because player B was stupid and went out without backup.. player B would get owned...

same scenario with bloom dmr..

Player A is shooting player B with DMR across the map while pacing his shots to get that perfect shot player B would survive because he'd have about 10 minutes to hide before the bloom goes down, or he'll just use armor lock..

  • 05.20.2010 8:54 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

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^Exactly.^

Although, I don't have a problem with Armor Lock, but the bloom is just unneeded.

  • 05.20.2010 8:58 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

About me:
I'm the founder of the group Pro Goosing League.
I'm a gooser.
I like racing.
I'm a casual player that thinks that the BR might be a little bit too overpowered.

Bloom was in CE, and it was worse than in Reach, although it had a faster reset. Even on the pistol.

Bloom has been in Halo for a while, whether you like it or not.

  • 05.20.2010 9:04 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: Mestizo DDS
bloom, slow movement, and short jump height killed halo: reach for me. The game despite having many new cool features and necessary fixes sucks due to the 3 huge errors in teh halo formula

Pretty much the same here. I played the Beta for a week or so and got over it. They took out some of the things I loved about Halo, and Reach just isn't as much fun as the previous Halos.

  • 05.20.2010 9:05 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: Unk55 the beast
Bloom has been in every single Halo game since CE. It just has never been visualized. Bungie did that so that when you're spamming the trigger without any bloom your not complaining about why you aren't getting the kill.


Sorry I haven't read the last three pages of this thread but I had to address what this guy said. While this may be true the Bloom in this game is much much different than in any other Halo game. It exists on SINGLE shot weapons which are meant to be high Accuracy weapons. Does this make sense? no...

  • 05.20.2010 9:08 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

AGREED!

  • 05.20.2010 9:13 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

I totally agree with the OP.

In other games with bloom on precision weapons like shadowrun, the experienced player who aimed for the head would win every time. Three perfectly placed headshots killed because headshots dealt more damage. Bloom was significant enough that if you didn't wait for bloom to reside(you spammed the trigger) you wouldn't hit your target AT ALL, even in close range. Skilled players were rewarded with faster kill times and noobs couldn't even use the weapons. This is what reach needs to try to emulate.

In reach, there's no headshot bonus damage to shields and bloom is so easy to control spamming works. Slowing down to control the bloom rewards the user with nothing, it only slows them down. There is no reason to control bloom until shields pop because head-shots don't deal more damage. The bloom does nothing but serve as a second rate of fire cap. Skilled players aren't rewarded at all. A 1v1 close range pistol duel is usually determined solely by luck, not skill.

In short, the bloom in Reach doesn't even serve the purpose it should. It doesn't stop spamming and it doesn't enhance the skill gap. It only slows things down, which in turn just leads to more stand-offish matches and people escaping situation's they really shouldn't have.

  • 05.20.2010 9:30 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

The bloom fails /thread

  • 05.20.2010 9:30 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: UNKNOWN iXi
Posted by: EVIL X YODA
First of all, this is completely unnecessary. There are also many things which I hate about these forums, and one of them is someone like you. You state something, but give no reason as to why you say it. You come in and act like a kid, and not state anything constructive. Like your opinion is all that matters. It is just that, an opinion, just like mine is. Just because you think it is a poor decision, doesn't mean it is. I know a lot of people who like realism, and on the flip side I know my fair share who hate realism in halo. My opinion, is that even though it is far in the future, it is a gun, so I want it to act relatively close to a gun. Since when did realism not equal fun in Halo? Once again, that is your opinion, and I respect it, but at the same token, why can't you respect other peoples opinions? Just because we are in a way defending a decision made by Bungie, doesn't make us "mindless sheep blinded by Bungie loyalty". I don't play Halo because Bungie makes it, I play Halo because I like it.


Ok let me ask you one question.

Did you like any of the Halo games at all? Halo 1-3 or even ODST? Heck, even Reach?

If you did, then you would agree with my argument and realize that what you say is unnecessary regarding the whole "realism" thing...


The only thing is was referring to that was unnecessary was the "mindless sheep blinded by Bungie loyalty" comment. I have played Halo basically since it debuted. I also liked Halo 1 the best. I have said before, I understand Halo isn't your typical shooting game, with it first being set much into the future, and also having a quite non-realistic overall story and such. All i'm saying is, while the whole game doesn't have to be 100% realistic, I do like having some realistic aspects implemented. Things like recoil, and yes bloom. Does everything be as real as possible, hell no. IMO, I just like to have a gun act like a gun for the most part. Other than that, it's a little hard to implement realism into "super soldiers" as far as abilities and such go, i'm merely talking about how the guns operate.

On a side note, i'm not trying to attack you or your opinion, I just wish you could have said it in a different way. And sorry for the late response, i'm at work, and I realized I probably should actually, oh I don't know, work...lol.

  • 05.20.2010 9:30 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Were it so easy.

Posted by: DG Ren3gade
Posted by: TheFreakture
Posted by: LinkLegend0
Its not a millisecond, more like a second. And it is hard when they are just spraying you and can kill you if you time your shots.


Unless reticule bloom doesn't work in the way I believe it is supposed to, the amount of time you need to wait is proportional to your distance from the enemy. Generally I run towards my enemy and they run towards me and so as they fill more of my reticule there is less and less of a wait between shots.


The problem with that is, though, that all it takes is one shot to go lucky for your opponent (assuming they're forgoing shot timing) and suddenly luck has swung the entire firefight into their favor.

Yes exactly, I just spam the magnum on dmr, ignoring bloom, and half the time I'll get the kill before the other guy.

  • 05.20.2010 9:33 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

60% of the time.....it hits every time........

Posted by: BLUEelite52

The bloom results in random DMR/Pistol wins.


A gun which also doesnt do much damage with that SINGLE round.


Seriously?! The BR had WAY WAY WAY again WAY more random lucky headshot br/br wins than the dmr/mag fights ever will. Ive played alot of the beta and cant think of many lucky headshots ive gotten by spamming at a range where you shouldnt be able to. As for the damage....it takes 4 single bullets to take a shield off........thats powerful as S*i7! I take shields off all day long at all range with ease.....with that gun. The shield machanics are what makes the headshoters seem less powerful.

  • 05.20.2010 9:35 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

I adapted to bloom and was pretty successful, I hardly noticed it's presence to be honest.

  • 05.20.2010 9:37 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Your friend is not a reliable source of information

Bloom has been in every game, but the rate at which the bloom decreases has been greatly slowed in Reach.
Posted by: Unk55 the beast
Bloom has been in every single Halo game since CE. It just has never been visualized. Bungie did that so that when you're spamming the trigger without any bloom your not complaining about why you aren't getting the kill.

  • 05.20.2010 9:40 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

kinda tired of people saying the dmr and pistol are random. they are both accurate guns with a little timing. but they are only random because he or she chose for their shots to be random by how fast they fired. so in a way its by design. it is what you chose and thats what you get. i you are shooting to fast you gave everything to chance and luck.

in a way shotting fast is good if they are already in your face so close you can count the pimples on their face and basicly got the barrel in their mouth no way your gonna miss so might as well. but if you plan on shooting quickly while trying to cross map someone on boneyard good luck not gonna happen.

with all that said, bloom is a good thing. if you know your gun well you will know how fast or slow how to shoot relative to the range. so the person who knows their weapons the best will win respectively. no way your gonna win a fight with a guy thats in your face holding a shotgun and all you got is a dmr or pistol.

  • 05.20.2010 9:44 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

I disagree. Everyone looks at this as a glass half empty sort of thing. Visual reticle bloom gives players the power to see how inaccurate their aim is and adjust it. It allows for faster kills for the more skilled players. If anything it caters to the "Pros" (I hate using that term) than it does to faux pros.

  • 05.20.2010 9:47 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: Go Vader
I adapted to bloom and was pretty successful, I hardly noticed it's presence to be honest.


That's the problem, bloom is so easy to control, that it doesn't do what its supposed to. Spamming still works and controlling bloom before shields pop is pointless.

Bloom should make spamming useless(greater bloom radius, faster resetting), and reward those who control bloom on every shot(headshots should do more damage to shields).

The bloom in the beta does nothing but slow the game down and increase randomness, while adding virtually nothing to the skill gap.

  • 05.20.2010 9:50 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas