Halo Reach Beta Forum
  • Subject: INVASION Impressions/Feedback
Subject: INVASION Impressions/Feedback

Post your general thoughts and impressions regarding Invasion in the Halo: Reach Beta.

Rants go elsewhere. Please be constructive. Or else.

KNOWN ISSUES:

-Parties are being split
-Host migration may result in incorrect objective/loadouts
-Destroyed vehicles can be used to block retrieval of the core

  • 05.07.2010 5:59 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

See me with my flames during Fall!

Invasion? Great idea. A few tweaks here and there would be fine though. Like the Spartans can easily take Elites weapons at the beginning of the spawn.

Posted by:Thawbooz 96

ALL ISSUES KNOWN TO DATE/HELPFUL FEEDBACK (HOPEFULLY):
****READ!****

-During the first phase of Invasion, the Spartans can potentially spawn-kill the Elites if they are efficient enough with the DMR. This can be fixed if either the Spartans lose the DMRs in the first phase, or if the Elites gain the Needle Rifle. I fear that players will soon spawn-camp, as it is already starting to happen.

-Sometimes, at the beginning of an Invasion Slayer match (0-25 kills), all players, both Spartans and Elites, have an Assault rifle and two grenades, no armor abilities, no choice of loadouts, and weapon drops don't work.

-The announcer says "flag reset" when the core is reset.

-The announcer says "core stolen", even when it's your team who took the core. Shouldn't it say "core taken"?

-Spawning is very sluggish, even when you are trying to spawn at a "safe point". It seems slow, and can take up to an extra 4 seconds to spawn.

-Players may accidentally spawn onto a squadmate who is jetpacking, which can lead to instant suicide. I'm not sure if this is by design, but perhaps the player should be denied the ability to spawn on a flying teammate.

-In Invasion, not so much Invasion Slayer, there should be two rounds: one in which you play as a Spartan, and the next in which you play for the Elites (or vice versa). I've played 3 matches in a row where I was a Spartan, and I just wish I could have the opportunity to play on both sides. This could also extend the play time for Invasion, which community members have been asking for.

-Another way to extend the playtime of Invasion is this: Perhaps, in Phase 1, there should be more time in the round, and the Covenant Team should be required to capture both territories. Similarly, in Phase 2, the Elites should be required to capture the both territories, first the outside one, and then the inside one, just to make more sense. Afterwards, in Phase 3, the time in the round is fine as it is. *Extra Suggestion* In the Final Phase, there should be two drop off points for the core, so that the Spartans can not camp one heavily, which can be very frustrating. This would make the game more strategic and fun, rather than simply waiting at the drop off point for the Elites to come.

-I don't like how the game is slightly tipped over to favor the Spartans. Since defending, is and always has been, the easiest thing to do, and with the addition of powerful loadouts, Elites almost never come victorious. On top of this, Spartan vehicles are much stronger than Covenant ones. For example, a Wraith is arguably harder to aim with than a Scorpion tank, and it has a weaker cannon. A Scorpion is so accurate that it can kill a jetpacking Elite out of the sky, so powerful that it can destroy a ghost in one shot, and a Wraith in two, and has a quick respawn time. I think that the Wraith should either be balanced with the Scorpion, or that the Scorpion should have a slightly longer wait time. I just recently finished a match where the opposing team had a total of THREE Scorpions in Phase 3. When we finally made it inside through valiant efforts (still not sure how we did it) we were immediately greeted with Spartans who crouched around doorways with Shotguns and others in the back with Grenade Launchers. Shotgun seems to almost always beat the sword now, whereas in Halo 3 it required good timing. Yes, we the Elites, lost the match.

-In my personal opinion, having a short cutscene at the end of an Invasion Match (or round, on the off chance that you follow my advice above Bungie) would totally put the icing on the cake. For example, if it is a Spartan Victory, there could actually be a brief cutscene showing the obliteration of the Covenant Ships and the Tactical Strike. There could be a cutscene of the Elites escaping with the core if it is an Elite Victory. These clips would only be about 5 seconds long, and I doubt that they would be difficult to make (but what do I know). I just think they could add a bit of fun and "epicness" (yes, that's not a word) to the game.

-Another thing is, in Invasion Slayer, it feels like only half of the map is being used. The side with the core is basically the only side where fighting occurs and where most, if not all, weapon drops happen. This not only renders half of Boneyard useless, but it makes the Spartan team spawn right into action as soon as the respawn counter hits zero. This, causes a feeling of constant spawn and death because the Spartans are so overwhelmed the instant they hit the battlefield. In fact, in a recent Invasion Slayer match, I was being spawn-camped by the Covenant team in the "Junkyard" Spawn point! The Elites hid in a corner with a sword, only to slice you as soon as you appeared. Unfair.

***People, people, stop posting about the Elites overpowering the Spartans in one-on-one fights, because that is by design. Think about it...these massive, powerful aliens with sophisticated technology and superior shields, would probably overpower Spartans in a small skirmish, realistically (with all the realism there is in a game where you fight aliens =) ).

--To Bungie: I just wanted to thank you, once again, on your fantastic work with this game. I truly believe listening to the community feedback and changing a bit of your design will benefit you, but I understand this can be hard with all the different opinions being thrown at you. Not to say that you're not doing a great job of taking in community responses.

Thanks for reading, everyone!


[Edited on 05.09.2010 1:41 PM PDT]

  • 05.07.2010 6:01 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

On my file share, I have a video of invasion, and after a short lag, I spawn but when i jump off this platform I die. How lame

  • 05.07.2010 6:02 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Go Rockets!!!

Aaron Brooks for MIP!!!

The only problems that I have noticed is that the spartans have an easier job to do on regular invasion. It's not major but the elites could use a little help. Maybe better starting classes?

  • 05.07.2010 6:02 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Its good. Although there were several times where I could spawn about 3 ft away from the enemy. It was beneficial for me because I could launch a surprise attack, but is that supposed to happen?

  • 05.07.2010 6:02 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Your character is a direct result of your conduct.

Posted by: LeLRathlor28
On my file share, I have a video of invasion, and after a short lag, I spawn but when i jump off this platform I die. How lame

Did you hit the ground and recieve enough fall damage to kill you? Or did you just die?

  • 05.07.2010 6:03 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: SR2O
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Invasion is simply amazing! Personally, both teams are balanced. Spartans do have a slight advantage, by design! If only people would realize this.

One thing I want to mention is the weapon cache drop off needs to be more easily seen. Many games I didn't even notice it was there.

[Edited on 05.07.2010 6:04 PM PDT]

  • 05.07.2010 6:03 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

"They jumped, exploded in midair, and their ashes fell into the sharks mouth."

Very, very fun gametype.

One issue I have, though, is the Spartan side camping or "tactically holding" the drop-off point for the navigation core. It's maybe not an exploit, but it is pretty cheap, no?

Just wondering if it would be possible to fix/limit how exactly it could work. Because having four minutes of being demolished by people holding out on, technically, a place you should be holding does not feel good. >.<

  • 05.07.2010 6:03 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

One of the last ~300 Halo 2 players ever.

The Hayabusa makes us more aerodynamic! We're going SUPER FAST!

Average Joe

I'm loving Invasion, and Invasion Slayer. The only thing I dislike is the fact that Spartans can spawn with the Pro Pipe in the final stages on Invasion Slayer. It's super tough to do anything as an Elite with vehicles when those things are going off and EMPing us every five seconds. Plus they seem to cause deaths out of nowhere.

Otherwise, I <3 Invasion.

  • 05.07.2010 6:03 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Warriors have Plasma Repeaters and DMRs' can easily run out of ammo and then the repeater doesnt fail, and get the kill. I do agree that they need some cover to reduce spawn camping

  • 05.07.2010 6:04 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Is there a way to make it to where elites cannot pickup human weapons and vice-versa?

Also, in slayer, it seems to happen almost routinely that one team is able to hold off on the territory long enough to get the reinforcement, only to die right as it spawns and the other team reaps the reward. What about covy vehicles spawning in covy spawn and the same for unsc?

[Edited on 05.07.2010 6:06 PM PDT]

  • 05.07.2010 6:04 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: [none]
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The game says "flag returned" instead of "core returned"

other than that, I love invasion. It doesn't last long enough IMO. Kinda feels like its over before I know it when the Elites push through all three objectives. Great job on it though.

  • 05.07.2010 6:04 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

i made a thread already but ill link it to add to the list of issues.

i had a game where the elite had assault rifles and frags, and the weapon drops didnt work the first 25 kills

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=43922952

[Edited on 05.07.2010 6:13 PM PDT]

  • 05.07.2010 6:04 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Its only about 3 feet down :/ wish bungie would actually check out my topics

  • 05.07.2010 6:05 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Something that may need balancing is on the 3rd stage, the spartans can use the operator AA and then it becomes nearly impossible to capture the core thanks to the shotgun.

  • 05.07.2010 6:05 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

BLAR!

Sorry, I think you might have said this is a known issue re:host migration, but I'm posting just in case its not.

When the core resets the announcer always says: "flag reset"

  • 05.07.2010 6:05 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: I sx I
  • user homepage:

Nub

Take the DMR away from the spartans in the first round of regular invasion. A pistol and AR is plenty to defend, The DMR makes it unfair on the Elites.

  • 05.07.2010 6:06 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Something I noticed that was kind of annoying, in Invasion slayer, If you were unfortunet enough to capture the point and die the vehicle was esily capturable by the enemy. yes i noticed the drop time, just figured maby you could add a lockdown time of a few seconds to give the team that captured the point a chance to get the vehicle they earned.

  • 05.07.2010 6:06 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: Btcc22
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Posting in appropriate thread now that there is one. ;)

--

I have to agree with the comment about it feeling unfinished and somewhat thrown together.

I too was expecting some kind of 16 player big team battle with objectives thrown in and perhaps a few brief cutscenes for when you win/lose/start the game.

Think UT2004's fantastic assault mode, but with added Halo.

At the moment, the balance feels off. As other posters have said, the Elites either get nowhere at all, or they'll get to the end. It really just depends on whether the defending team has any clue or just decides to run around without a clue and ignore the attackers.

Spawning system confusion aside, I don't quite understand the point of the two player teams. They seem to play no role in the game other than to limit your respawn location choices.

It feels like an FFA game where you spend most of your time wandering around on your own rather than something which ought to be a fast-paced and intense team oriented objective game.

For an example of how it's done right, again, see UT2004's assault mode. Exactly the same concept, only done on a larger scale.

  • 05.07.2010 6:06 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

I have never seen the elites win a game of normal invasion.
If the spartan team has any idea how to defend then its impossible for the elites to win.

-Stage 1-
Without needler rifles or a headshot weapon the elites cant compete against all the DMR using spartans. The elites would benefit from having more cover aswell.

-Stage 2-
This is the most even stage from what I have seen. But the spartans have lasers, rockets and grenade launchers. The wraith gets taken down much too easily and the elites cant hope to take down the warthog if the driver is good, because they have no antivehicle weapons.

-Stage 3-
The spartans have shotguns, which overpower the sword when used right. I have seen the core been taken within meters of the extraction point but just get returned because of the scorpion, once that tank comes into play the covenant have no chance. either make the extraction point closer, the core unable to be returned or give the elites fuel rods to own that tank.



[Edited on 05.07.2010 6:35 PM PDT]

  • 05.07.2010 6:07 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Pwning n Bonin

I think that they should switch sides at the end of the match, because it has a scoring system right? what does that matter against spartans and elites if there isnt a switch on sides

  • 05.07.2010 6:07 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Once the Elites get to the last objective, Spartans absolutely abuse the shotgun loadout. Its really easy to hold it one of the small rooms, since the Elites don't really have anything to beat shotguns in close range (except ridiculous grenade spam).

Its also kind of annoying not having any power weapons on the map in Invasion Slayer.

Other than that, I'm really loving it! I've already had some epic finishes.

Oh, and spawning takes too long. Even though the timer is done counting down, you still end up waiting a few seconds to spawn (even at the spawning locations, not just your battle buddy).

  • 05.07.2010 6:08 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Invasion seems alright but there are a couple of issues I have:

1. When I go in with a party of 6 I expect us all to be on the same side. Its not fun when one squad is placed on the opposing team.

2. It is pretty tough for Elites on Invasion to secure that first checkpoint. A reasonably coordinated team of Spartans can easily end the game in the first few minutes. Either give Elites better starting loadouts or more weapon spawns nearby so they can fight back.

3. The Sniper Rifle on Invasion Slayer is ridiculous. Plus the Elites ALWAYS seem to spawn in areas where they can be picked off by the Spartan Snipers. On the reverse side, Elites get Focus Rifles (I'm assuming as I haven't played as an Elite yet in Slayer) which aren't as good at Spawn Locking the Spartans.

At the moment Invasion Slayer > Regular Invasion for me.

  • 05.07.2010 6:08 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Bungie sadly has messed up Invasion... badly

  • 05.07.2010 6:08 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

I've got some problems with Invasion.

The six person teams it splits you up into aren't really teams, but squads of two. And when we went in with a 6 person group, I want to say maybe 2/10 times all 6 of us were in the same squads on the same team. It likes to take a 3rd pair from the group of 6 and puts them on the other team.

Also the Covenant seem to be overpowered when compared to the Spartans. The spartans do have the pistols, but the stickies and roll are lifesaving when you're fighting 2-3 guys. I would often roll, drop a sticky, roll drop a sticky and kill anyone left with ease, but often lose in 1v1 battles against covies when I was a spartan.

I think you should:

Balance the covenant with spartans. The roll seems a lot more valuable than the sprint right now.

Drop the squads entirely, or change them to two squads of 3 players.

Improve the party's ability to stay together.

Stop me spawning on a team mate flying, so I don't spawn suicide.

  • 05.07.2010 6:09 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas