Halo Reach Beta Forum
  • Subject: ARMOR ABILITIES Impressions/Feedback
Subject: ARMOR ABILITIES Impressions/Feedback

Armor Lock shouldn't lower shields until it explodes. I didn't like the trick everyone started figuring out where they would turn the corner, Armor Lock, and then beat you down. Plus thinking from how the thing works, shouldn't it give off an EMP blast when it explodes? I think only if you hold down Armor Lock the entire time, (until the bar is empty), should it explode and lower shields.

Active Camo was fine, but I don't think it should affect your own team's radar. That got pretty confusing.

Sprint was awesome, but I don't like how if you turn too far it knocks you out of it. And you should be able to sprint backwards and sideways. Also it was annoying when you couldn't shoot out of a sprint. For example, sprinting at someone holding a shotgun, when you pulled the trigger to shoot them it just took you out of sprint and screwed you over without shooting.

The Jetpack was nifty as well, no complaints there.

NEED TO ADD:
Teleportation. This would give players the ability to teleport quickly to gain ground, teleport in the midst of battles to mess up their aim, or jump through walls to avoid grenades or other things.

  • 05.20.2010 1:00 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Why the excess red dots for active camo? I wasn't sure which was real and which was the other team!

[Edited on 05.20.2010 1:20 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2010 1:18 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: Groove Regulator
NEED TO ADD:
Teleportation. This would give players the ability to teleport quickly to gain ground, teleport in the midst of battles to mess up their aim, or jump through walls to avoid grenades or other things.


Oh man that's hilar- Oh you're serious... Here, let me laugh harder.

  • 05.20.2010 1:21 PM PDT
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sprint is awsome

  • 05.20.2010 2:18 PM PDT
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I end threads.

I think all of the Armor Abilities should be directly related to movement or appearance.

Armor Lock is the only current AA that doesn't follow this idea and should be removed. It breaks the flow of gameplay (as well as all of the Armor Abilities, but to a much greater extent).

  • 05.20.2010 2:25 PM PDT
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any longer budy

  • 05.20.2010 2:25 PM PDT
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Obey.

Posted by: OnscreenChicken
Why the excess red dots for active camo? I wasn't sure which was real and which was the other team!
It isn't hard at all to track which red dots are moving in a realistic manner. Most, if not all, of the radar jamming dots wildly fluctuate/change direction impossibly.

[Edited on 05.20.2010 2:55 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2010 2:55 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

When they behold thee riding upon thine automobile, with its wheels spinning merrily upon the pavement, they may loathe thee, and attempt to jail thee for boarding foully- for thou art riding dirty.

I think Armor Lock should also allow for shield regeneration. Not much, or all the way, but it should make it so that if you were in a dire situation when you went into armor lock, that you're not just a lamb for the slaughter when you get out. The EMP blast doesn't do enough if there is someone standing BEHIND you, just outside your Armor Lock's EMP radius, waiting with a plasma grenade or a sword. If shields could be somewhat replenished when you go into armor lock, it could be used to turn the tide of the battle you were just in.

I also think the radius for the EMP should be bigger, especially if you stay in armor lock for the entire duration. I've had issues where the EMP didn't work at all.

  • 05.20.2010 2:58 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Armor abilities definitely bring a new element to gameplay in Halo. Either I'm a lot better than I was, but because of my large number of games in H3, nothing changes much, or my gamestyle is more suited to the tactical element armor abilities force the game into. Either way, they should be kept.

My one suggestion that needs consideration deals with Armor Lock. It's great that one can look around while locked down, but upon exit, the player should have to "turn" to attack someone. If the "frozen" image has the back towards you, the player should not be able to sword lunge directly at you. If the intent is that the character is supposed to be able to physically turn under the lock, than either you should only see an opaque glowing dome, or one should be able to see the character turning.

Thanks.

  • 05.20.2010 3:07 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Evade: I like it. The amount you get for a full charge (2) keeps it balanced with the other armor abilities. Being able to do it in any direction also made the Elites distinctly different to play from the Spartans, which is a good thing.

Active Camo: A lot of people have complained about the radar jamming, but I like it (otherwise the stealth class would be significantly overpowered as compared to the others). It makes sense that it would jam both teams' motion trackers. The duration-based-on-movement-speed is also a very good idea. Keep it as it is.

Armor Lock: I like it, but I think it needs a few tweaks. The EMP blast radius should be a bit bigger (as someone else said, big enough for a hallway but not big enough to fill a room). Also, you may want to look into the reaction time getting out of it - it seems a tad quick, though if it's any longer it might unbalance it.

Jet Pack: A lot of people's favorite. In and of itself it's balanced, but both of the grab bag maps have a lot of vertical depth to them, making it more useful than the other abilities. If the game ships with a lot of maps like this you may want to rachet up the other abilities a tad (as taking this one down a notch would severely impact its use) to keep things on an even plain. If we see more horizontal maps, though, leave it as is.

Sprint: Useful, but decidedly less so than the other abilities. It's about enough to cross the bridges in Sword Base, which means that it's not very useful for getting out of a firefight in the open. Increase its duration by 25-33% and it will be balanced. By the way, sprinting only forward was the way to go (have you ever seen anyone sprint backwards, I ask you?).

  • 05.20.2010 3:30 PM PDT
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Here's how I wish armor lock worked:

Spartan A1 has armor lock, Spartan B1 has a pistol. They run into each other, and B1 gets some shots off on A1's head. B1 seems to have the advantage, so A1 activates armor lock and screams for help. A1 suddenly can't take extra damage from headshots, his head is protected. Melee, even from behind, doesn't do a lot either, since melee is fairly slow and recharge will beat the damage. A1's shields recharge to full and then some, like an overshield. Spartan B1 keeps shooting and actually does shield damage, but A1 keeps charging, counteracting all of that damage. B1 switches a more powerful weapon, and now A1's charging can't keep up, his shields are starting to drop, although at a lower rate than if he wasn't armor locked due to the recharge. A1 now has to decide, does he wait for help, or does he end armor lock and start shooting back? If he starts shooting back, he'll still have his overshield, but he'll lose the recharge. Still, he'll have an advantage in terms of shields. If he waits, somebody might come along and kill B1, and then A1 can finish recharging as long as his armor lock has energy, which might mean he's got overall better shields for the next encounter (although they'll slowly fade). If he waits, Spartan B2 might come along with a rocket launcher and kill A1 outright with a couple hits.

Basically, I want armor lock to not be invincible, while at the same time providing a significant advantage in terms of HP. It does that through a larger pool of HP, and also an active recharge, even while taking fire. It lets somebody get a second chance at life, and it encourages teamwork on both sides. It encourages an armor lock user to have a buddy close by for support, since it's still possible to die while armor locked. It encourages the opposition to work together when fighting somebody with armor lock, because two or more people will be able to kill somebody who's armor locked, albeit slower than if they were fighting a lone guy with no overshield.

I see too many lone-wolf fights involving armor lock, and it's because of the nature of it. The video posted on the Bungie news feed is a great example of two people with armor lock going it alone against each other, whereas if one of them had a buddy, both of them probably wouldn't have died if the mechanic worked as I've described.

Actually, I just thought of another way armor lock could work. Just make damage against the player with armor lock active hurt energy reserves instead of shields. Beat on somebody hard enough, and their energy will go away and they'll lose armor lock. That means somebody fighting somebody with armor lock can make armor lock end sooner, and on their terms, but it still gives the guy with armor lock time to get help.


Active camo is not very camouflaged. I'd argue it's the least powerful armor ability of them all, and for one simple reason. You guys upped the polygon counts of everything, and that means there's lots more surfaces to reflect/distort light on a camouflaged spartan. When somebody with active camo runs up towards me, I can see him clear as day, and I know to look if I somehow missed him because of radar jamming. Active camo is actually a disadvantage when sneaking up behind somebody because of radar jamming too. Used to be, when you got the active camo power-up, you could gank a few people easy before anybody knew you were even there. Now, they see you coming on their radar and with their eyes. I've gotten many more assassinations as any other class besides recon, simply because active camo works less well for stealthiness than not trying to be stealthy.

[Edited on 05.20.2010 3:47 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2010 3:35 PM PDT
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JAKE HARTLEY

Armor Lock is terrible, really needs some changes. The cloak is good if you are moving very slow but worthless if u are running. If you get damaged your shield gives you away, make it so you aren't a bright Christmas light for so long after taking damage.

  • 05.20.2010 4:47 PM PDT
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Subject: ARMOR ABILITIES - IMPRESSIONS AND FEEDBACK

i think most of the AAS are fair,exept invis.invis is a little inderpowered i know you tried to help with the motion mess up bungie,but it only works if there is a teammate without invis to be the (scapegoat)but if nobody wants to help and your alone people WILL notice the many moving red bleeps,dont get me wrong i love all AAs but i love invis the least,armor lock and sprint FTW.

  • 05.20.2010 4:56 PM PDT
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Subject: ARMOR ABILITIES Impressions/Feedback

Yes when I do split screen and have cloak on everyone's hearing is muted. I am okay with the one who's using cloak not being able to hear (needed for balance) but I don't think that should affect the others (I love cloak but no one wants me to use it because of this).

  • 05.20.2010 4:58 PM PDT
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i think the player should be able to leap out of the armor lock or something because when they come out of the armor lock, they are very easy to kill with an melee kill or something.

  • 05.20.2010 5:32 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

I think that after a sprint there should not be a delay before you can melee/fire. When you come out of a sprint it's like you have to pull out your weapon again (you have to turn the sword on after a sprint). This small delay makes the sprinting class seem inferior to the other classes if you ask me. All the other classes are pretty powerful, but the sprint just seems pointless. All it is good for is running away and even that it isn't the greatest at helping. Please at least try out this suggestion and see if it helps balance the different abilities a little more. Thank you for listening.

  • 05.20.2010 5:35 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas


-armor you buy should have a role in game play, example: holding more ammo. but still keeping things as fair to other players (just a thought but doesn't matter)

-more armor abilities and load outs. the game gets to boring and predictable with the same ones

  • 05.20.2010 5:37 PM PDT
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A NO SCOPE MEDAL WOULD BE A AWSOME MEDAL TO PUT IN

  • 05.20.2010 5:44 PM PDT
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i think everything is fine except for armor lock i think you should not be able to react so soon after using it.

  • 05.20.2010 5:53 PM PDT
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I love them. they're pretty much the cat's pajamas. Thank you Bungie, you've taken the award winning formula you created years ago and added an element which brings depth and variation, but still doesn't detract from the game as a whole. some quick points.

Sprint & Evade: Both awesome.However, it would make more sense if sprint was a natural ability that everyone(elites included) should do. You could axe crouch (who crouches anyway?) and make the left stick press down to sprint. no? yes? please? At any rate, both spartans and elites should have both.

Jetpack: I suppose FTW sums it up.

Armour lock: wicked. If one is smart you can counter people just chucking grenades or jetpack/rocket combo ect. but if your overuse it, your toast. I don't know why some people claim its invincibility. You cant move. Thats the balance.

Cloak: Sweeeet. Use it with skill, you shall be rewarded. I love going predator and being rewarded with an assassination. It does seem kind of underpowered. maybe not so much camo breakdown with speed but more with damage.

Other than that I just want to see more epic abilities when this puppy ships.(breakdance melee FTW) thanks Bungie.

  • 05.20.2010 6:06 PM PDT
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sprint is a poor substitute for evade. w/ evade if someone launches an explosive projectile into the room i can very gracefully dodge out of the way and not have any serious damage done to my person (maybe about a quarter of my shield). w/ sprint i have to have a one or two-second head start to attain the speed i need to avoid getting killed. it's more useful after the fact than during (i get hit by a grenade-->i run as far away from the room as possible).

invisibility is WAY overpowered. granted, the thought of scrambling somebody's radar so i can sneak up on 'em is sweet and even sweeter is the fact that how fast i move determines how well the invis works (jog=discernible, crawl=not). but i feel like the radar jammer works too well to last the entirety of the AA's duration. having it be a two-second burst at the beginning of the AA to hide the positions of my teammates and i while we get set up for whatever maneuver would be a much better way to go i think.

the jetpack is amazing, keep it just the way it is!

i don't use armor lock that often, but the few times i have have proved to be invaluable. nothing's quite like almost dying and just before my opponent lands the finishing blow i AL, the EMP gets rid of his shield, i wait for mine to pop back and suddenly i'm the one w/ the upper hand. awesome.

it's really hard to tell what armor ability a person has unless u're behind them or they use it. while the jetpack adds a very noticeable amount of bulk to a spartan's/elite's person, the other AAs r all little (sometimes glowing) battery packs found on the player's lower back. these r extremely hard to discern at any distance and impossible to recognize from the front or sides. not being able to tell what a person is liable to do in a combat situation greatly detracts from the strategy aspect of Halo, making most fights about luck instead of skill. landing five shots into a person only to have them armor lock as i go for the head b/c i didn't know what the person was capable of beforehand sucks. allot.

UNSC equipment on elites? wtf?

sweet idea, i like it allot more than the tools from Halo 3. needs a few modifications to make it perfect (or as close to perfect as it can be). can't wait to see what the other ones r. regenerator perhaps?

  • 05.20.2010 6:14 PM PDT
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"I need a weapon...."

Dear Bungie,

What you have done with Halo Reach Multiplayer is absolutely fantastic. I have not been a big fan of the Halo franchise, but the beta has given me a change of heart for Halo Reach. The main reason for this is the Armor Abilities, along with a few minor changes you've made to the Halo multipalyer experience. That being said, I have great ideas on how to balance/change the AA's functionality.

-Armor Lock: Players are arguing that this AA is overpowered, especially in team games. I have 2 ways that you can nerf this ability and can still be very useful. 1) Reduce the duration; Like players have said, it's just too power in team games, and it acts as a "get out of fail, free!" card. You should think about reducing the duration by maybe 1 or 2 seconds. Tinker around to get the right amount of time. 2) 3rd person view; when exiting Armor Lock stance, players are able to instantaneously attack enemies. This is fine, allow it. An easy way to fix this "complaint" is the 3rd person view. While under Armor Lock, players can look around in 3rd person view, then when they exit Armor Lock their screen takes the direction in which they were pointing, thus, being able to target enemies easily. Simply don't allow players the ability to look around in 3rd person view, that way they will remain facing forward after Armor Locking.

-Camouflage: I agree with players that the radar jamming is a little too much, my idea, simply reduce the number of enemy dots that appear on the radar. Make it just 3 or up to 5. As for players complaining that other players camp with the sword or hammer while invisible around the corner, they should realize that players do this with or without camouflage; Change is not necessary for this.

-Sprinting: I'm in agreement when players say that you should not be allowed to sprint with a melee weapon (sword/hammer). Honestly, if players sprint to their favorite (or powerful) weapons in the beginning of the match, why are they allowed to get easy lunges with melee weapons? The number of times I've seen players do this exceeds the number of times I've said "wow." But, if a player unequipped their melee weapon (switches to secondary weapon) then they may sprint again. Other than this, sprinting is just fine.

-Evade: Like sprinting, evading needs tweaking when it comes to melee weapons, but in a different manner. Players evade toward their enemies for easy melee kills. My thoughts: when carrying a melee weapon and evading, there is a 1 second cool down before you are able to use that weapon. Therefore, if a player carries any other normal weapon (i.e needle rifle, DMR, etc) then the cool down will not exist, they may attack almost immediately after evading.

-Jet Pack: No changes needed! The Jet Pack is perfect as is.


I hope you find my ideas worthy and place them into effect. I only seek to balance the AA's so that the multiplayer won't be unbalanced and, moreover, frustrating to players. I may not be a hardcore Halo fan, but I guarantee to you that Halo Reach will be in my video game collection.

Sincerely,
D34thByD4wn

  • 05.20.2010 6:44 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Sprint need sum improvements; move faster, go farther.
Thank you in advance.

  • 05.20.2010 6:51 PM PDT
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the armor abilities are great.... i wish you could combine two abilities together that would be awesome

  • 05.20.2010 7:02 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

It wood be nice to have a larger color selection for my armor.

As well as sum different armor patterns, tiger print, pinstripes, Wall paper and sow on.

And full body armor customization, that wood be sweat.

  • 05.20.2010 7:03 PM PDT
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