Halo Reach Beta Forum
  • Subject: THE OFFICIAL REVIEW THREAD - POST IMPRESSIONS HERE!
Subject: THE OFFICIAL REVIEW THREAD - POST IMPRESSIONS HERE!

FAQ:

Q: Hey! I saw the golden Septagon. Where can I find the yellow text and what did the Bungie employee say?

A: Page 14 of this thread:
Posted by: urk
Sweet! Feel free to keep posting impressions. In fact, it would be helpful for all the fine folks who read good to post their own early thoughts in this thread.

:)


Q: Wait a sec, remind me again EXACTLY what this thread is for?

A: This is the official thread for reviews of the Beta that give general overall impressions, opinions, and critiques. This is not a thread for specific feedback, bug reporting, glitches, errors, or other similar issues. Please keep all reviews here! Thanks :-)


Q: Should I send you my reviews in a private message?

A: Nope. Go ahead and post 'em right here as a reply to this thread so that everybody, including Bungie, can see them :-)


First, let me state that despite the orange text, those of you not already familiar with these forums might be unaware that I am NOT a Bungie employee and do NOT have any inside information not available to the rest of the community.

Anyway, to do my own little part in keeping down the number of threads in this forum, I intend to only create two detailed/in-depth reviews encompassing all of my feedback on the Reach Beta. This one -- after 35 games -- to give "initial impressions," and one near the end of the Beta to give my thoughts after many more games. I would encourage you guys to do the same thing.

Anyway, here we go:

Overall Initial Impressions

The game is fun. Really fun. Even with the limited gametypes/maps we've seen, I feel that one-sided objective gametypes are going to make a triumphant return to glory in this game, following Halo 3's more dominating symmetrical objective gametypes. Stockpile is a crazy-fun gametype and a very clever twist on CTF.

I am thrilled with many of the additions to the game, but have a few concerns as well. I will voice both here.

Core Gameplay Mechanics

Player Movement

Despite thoughts pre-Beta that the reduction in speed would not be noticeable, it is noticeable not only when walking around, but also in the reactions of players who have a few games under their belt. Except for players who turn on "sprint," movement around maps has become seriously restricted. Players seem to go to power weapon spawns, grab the weapon, then go back to their base or look for high ground from which to camp for kills. Without sprint on, movement feels sluggish. Strafing is near-useless, and I have easily been able to snipe and DMR/Needle Rifle players who are strafing with zero or very few missed shots.

The reduction in jump height is not particularly great or bad, but given the choice I'd set jump heights to be higher once again. So much more is added to player movement, individual battles, map flow, and even (thinking way ahead) things like "jump videos" when the jump heights are set high.

Overall, and I hate to say it, but player movement feels like it has been made to imitate more "realistic" FPS games such as COD, where humans move slowly and do not jump very high. The net result is more camping, less Halo-style run-and-gun -- and Halo's gameplay style has really been, in my opinion, a huge contributor to its success. Halo's player movement has always separated it not just in terms of being faster and more fun, but also in terms of being able to execute more complicated moves in terms of player movement, rather than focusing solely on weapon skill. While some Halo-style movement and jumping is retained, this almost feels like some sort of hybrid or transition between Halo-style gameplay and COD-style gameplay.

Weapons, Melees, and Kills

I am a huge fan of the new weapons in this game. Clearly, a TON of work was put into balancing and role-assignment. I have absolutely zero complaints. Reticle bloom is a fantastic addition and allows better and more patient players to win individual battles. Every weapon seems to have a different role to play, and these roles are extraordinarily well-balanced.

My only issue with weapons has to do with the Sniper Rifle, and is far more of an issue with player movement than the sniper itself. With reduced player speed, I have found it far easier to snipe enemy players. In fact, the sniper is my number 3 most-used weapon and it only appears on one map. I think that reduced player speed, inability to strafe or jump effectively, and a relatively quick reticle-bloom-reduction on the sniper rifle has the overall effect of making the weapon unbalanced. But again, this is not a complaint about the sniper rifle itself, but rather focuses more on player movement.

I am pleased to see that 3 of my top 4 most-used weapons so far are precision-aiming weapons, as I would have hoped.

I am a fan of the new melee system as well. While close quarters combat will never go away in any FPS, in Reach, the "AR CHAAAAARGE!!! MELEE!!" battles seem to be greatly reduced in number. Most of my melee kills are the result of sneaking up on already-weakened players or melee weapons such as the grav hammer, sword, or flag.

Grenades

Frag grenades are extremely overpowered. There is no way to say it differently. They move too quickly to dodge out of the blast radius, a Spartan can throw them clear across the map, and the blast radius is huge. I suspect you will see frag grenades in the top-3 tools of destruction for nearly every player in the Beta. This will frustrate players. In my experience (and in my own opinion), players are much less frustrated to lose a DMR battle than to be killed by a frag grenade that comes out of nowhere and cannot be dodged.

Armor Abilities and Loadouts

Note: The FOLLOWING section is irrelevant, as I have discovered that Bungie already took care of this -- just me took a while to find it, and I should have seen it before :-) I have left it in place solely for informational purposes.

Please remember when reading the following section that there are visible indicators that tell you ahead of time what AA a person is using. The only issue is that it is only visible from the back. Regardless, though, these indicators are great and now that I know they're there, should provide for even more competitive battles.

Sprint
Jetpack
Armor Lock
Camo

woohoo!
To put it bluntly, I think that armor abilities need the most tweaking in the game. One of the things I like the least about armor abilities is their randomness. When looking at a player, you never know what armor ability they have. Not even late in the game, since they can easily change their AA while respawning. This can often result in players getting themselves into a battle they cannot win, even if they are the superior player and have made what is objectively a good decision.

As a real-life example, yesterday, I had a rocket launcher on Powerhouse. While moving around the map, I saw two players running right next to each other just before they saw me. I fired a rocket at them in a perfect position to get a double kill. In this instance, I objectively made a good decision, knowing that I had the superior weapon and going in for the kill, while they made an objectively poor decision, running right next to each other and not being aware of me. Nevertheless, they saw me with the rocket launcher just in time to enter "Armor Lock." After the rocket exploded (it was the last rocket I had), they exited armor lock and proceeded to team-DMR me to death.

I fear that these kinds of frustrating experiences will be more common with armor abilities such as armor lock, evade, or camo. As I've said many times before, any FPS must finely balance predictability (which benefits players who are "good" at the game) with randomness (which benefits players who are "not so good" at the game) to avoid frustration from both sides. I would not remove armor abilities entirely, since they are undoubtedly an improvement over equipment, but they should be extremely carefully tested and tweaked where necessary to reduce randomness. Perhaps a simple indicator of what Armor Ability a player currently has available, (much like the visible jetpack) or differently colored armor piece, could reduce this randomness and result in more informed decisions.



AA/Weapon Combinations

Melee weapons become extremely powerful when paired with sprint or roll. A couple of those ultra-powerful grenades can usually do the trick on a player who is doing this, though if the frag grenade strength is reduced as it should be, these combinations might become near-unstoppable (and extremely annoying) on some maps.

On both maps, I find myself using almost entirely sprint combined with a precision weapon such as the sniper, DMR or Needle Rifle. I suspect that, throughout the Beta, this is the AA/weapon combination you'll see from more competitive players, while more casual players will most often use armor lock and rely on grenades or explosive-ammo weapons (rocket launcher, grenade launchers, etc). Not saying anything good or bad about either one, just an observation and prediction.





[Edited on 05.06.2010 10:29 AM PDT by urk]

  • 04.30.2010 11:09 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
Subject: The Official "My Beta Review" Thread - POST IMPRESSIONS HERE

(continued from above)

Graphics and Maps

One word: gorgeous. The maps look fantastic, the graphics are noticeably upgraded, and animations are silky smooth.

One compliment I'd like to give is how grenade action is far more predictable on the two maps we've seen so far. I really appreciate being able to predict where my grenade will go if I bounce it off a wall and being right, rather than having the grenade bounce off some texture and back into my face.

These maps seem to be very well balanced (though I'm STILL getting lost on Sword Base) and after 35 games, I have only spawned into enemy fire/grenades ONCE. That's fantastic, and I'm very impressed.

I'm not really into the whole pretty-looking-armor thing like some folks here, so I can't really comment as to the aesthetics of player models or the whole Credits system to get new armor (I have only bought a couple of new armor pieces, and mostly just to try it out). I think that "credits" are something that will be largely useless to some players unless they can be used for something besides just buying armor pieces. I am not motivated by getting more armor pieces for my Spartan as much as I am by other goals (such as the "ranking" system, which I do like)

Other Miscellaneous Observations

* The new-and-improved radar is superb for helping awareness, especially on highly-vertical maps like Sword Base

* The "location indicator" that tells you what part of the map you're currently in is excellent, though I don't typically pay much attention to it.

* Proximity voice is, in my opinion, too strong. I can hear players who are fairly far away and even players who are on different floors above or below me. If a floor is closed off, you shouldn't be able to hear players above or below you unless there is some kind of opening in the floor/ceiling.

* Connections and lag have been beautiful. I have not experienced any laggy games whatsoever, and host migrations are quick and painless. The network engineers have done an amazing job with the netcoding for this Beta, and I can't imagine how they can make it any better, though I'm sure they'll find a way.

* No visible skill ranks is a good change. I support it, I like it, and I feel a lot less pressure to perform in-game because of it. I think that the occasional month where I try for an Arena rank will be more than enough to fill my competitive desires :-)


Your comments are welcome and I'll respond to any questions or disagreements you may have :-)

[Edited on 05.04.2010 3:08 PM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 11:10 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
Subject: My Beta Review After 35 Games

I work pfhor bob.

Pretty good review dude, Its me ODSTFADE.

[Edited on 04.30.2010 11:22 AM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 11:15 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

I haven't played the Beta myself yet, but I will agree that Armor Abillities should be more noticeable. In the March Madness Trailer, the Armor Lock Armor Abillity manifested itself as a large backpack like object. I'm confused as to why this was taken out for the beta.

I mean, in Halo 3, if I see a guy with a shotgun handle poking up over his shoulder, I know not to get close to the guy. I figured that the Armor Lock Backpack would serve the same purpose, pointing out to people "Hey, if you are going to kill me, make it fast!"

Meh.

[Edited on 04.30.2010 11:16 AM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 11:15 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Let me put it this way. When someone at Bungie said, "Hey. We should give people Recon for good deeds, etc."

I'll bet at least one person on the staff was like,"Bad Idea." That person was right.

Everything that is wrong with Halo 3 right here:
http://gameroom.mlgpro.com/view/EVWNcdPD0iM.html

First off, good review. Is it monday yet? No? Damn.

Second, I don't think the grenades are the problem so much as the movement speed is. You say that you can see the grenades coming, but are unable to avoid them. That seems to me like it could be fixed better by speeding up players than by reducing grenade damage, because grenades (in my opinon) need to be powerful to counteract camping.

Third, I can see the sprint/melee combination becoming this games version of the Tac Knife/Lightweight/Marathon/Commando class. That is worrying.

Edit: How is aiming? Did they do away with the Aim Accleraton from Halo 3?

[Edited on 04.30.2010 11:18 AM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 11:16 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Great review. Ive been watching streams and I agree that player movement needs to be tweaked a bit. Its too easy to pull of a headshot.

  • 04.30.2010 11:17 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

@twitter

I have a myspace/facebook but I will not post it. Message me if you want to add me.

Posted by: stosh
Don't make us kick your ass.

I agree with the grenades, the blast radius is crazy. I wish there would be more mid-range combat. 80% of my combat situations have been CQB. Seriously, look. Sure I probably suck at the game but this is a bit much IMO.

[Edited on 04.30.2010 11:18 AM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 11:17 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

You have been killed by -:Cl!QuE:- (by the sniper rifle Halo 1 Style)

(Halo 1 will always be remembered)
Halo 3 >>>>>> Halo 2

I have to say that I think the needle rifle should have its damage increased a little bit. It just pales in comparison to the DMR.


OH and you are 100% correct about the grenade. Right now they are too powerful. I would say either tone down the grenade or increase the damage of all the loadout weapons.

[Edited on 04.30.2010 11:21 AM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 11:19 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

pretty good sum up of the beta so far.

However I disagree with the armor abilities being too random.

I think it adds a good dimension into the game. It steps away from the shoot first you win style of play.

  • 04.30.2010 11:20 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

i simply hate the magnum..just my opinion..i wish they could just leave the halo 2 pistol, NO SCOPE!!

  • 04.30.2010 11:21 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: [none]
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I havent tried the Beta but you've confirmed some of my fears. Let's hope that some of the things are things a person can get use to as he or she becomes more experienced.

  • 04.30.2010 11:21 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Alien slavers or fanatical religious aliens, they all bleed in bright colors. Like a box of 64 color crayons when you hit it with a flame-thrower. - Tozt anyone?

* Meet the Ninjas - * Read the Rules - * Recon's Rant

Avatar courtesy of Olole, derived from the art of Craig Mullins and Bungie Studios.

I too am concerned that the highly competitive player community will accept/reject Armor Abilities which are (in essence) mostly-hidden, changeable at respawn, rechargeable, and reusable equipment and how they add/insert a measure of unpredictability for those who feel that "I have a high degree of situational awareness and based on my assessment of the situation, I had the upper hand which was nullified by something outside of my control or ability to detect."

Some players (myself being one) play and find themselves in a nearly constant stream of "how in the hell did THAT happen?" moments. For the highly competitive, any "WTF, I should have been able to know they could do that, or they shouldn't have been able to do that" moment means that there is an unknown and unforeseeable element to gameplay. Which is unacceptable (or at least protestable) for those who pride themselves on knowing the game so well that any moment (if properly assessed) should then follow a predictable chain of events (if properly executed) to a logical and predictable conclusion.

  • 04.30.2010 11:21 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Am I missing a leg, or did I even have it to begin with?

My pet peeve: If you're going to quote me, do it right. My words of epicness don't belong to anyone else but me.

Halo Reach Beta Q&A Thread

No I don't have any Beta codes. Sorry :(

Nice review Mr. Foman. I concur with almost everything you said. It seems Grenades are universally OP and need to be tweaked. I also hope they address the Armor Lock issue, but I personally didn't have any problems with it. The proximity voice is a problem though. I'll probably end up muting the other team from now on. I leave it on to try and have a friendly atmosphere, but some people are, as always, dicks.

I'd like to get a match going where we can test out tactical jumps and some known glitches. If anyone is up for it, please PM me. No fighting; just bug testing.

The graphics and animations are beautiful, aren't they? Nice work Bungie.

[Edited on 04.30.2010 11:29 AM PDT by x Foman123 x]

  • 04.30.2010 11:21 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Am I missing a leg, or did I even have it to begin with?

My pet peeve: If you're going to quote me, do it right. My words of epicness don't belong to anyone else but me.

Halo Reach Beta Q&A Thread

No I don't have any Beta codes. Sorry :(

Posted by: Recon Number 54
I too am concerned that the highly competitive player community will accept/reject Armor Abilities which are (in essence) mostly-hidden, changeable at respawn, rechargeable, and reusable equipment and how they add/insert a measure of unpredictability for those who feel that "I have a high degree of situational awareness and based on my assessment of the situation, I had the upper hand which was nullified by something outside of my control or ability to detect."

Some players (myself being one) play and find themselves in a nearly constant stream of "how in the hell did THAT happen?" moments. For the highly competitive, any "WTF, I should have been able to know they could do that, or they shouldn't have been able to do that" moment means that there is an unknown and unforeseeable element to gameplay. Which is unacceptable (or at least protestable) for those who pride themselves on knowing the game so well that any moment (if properly assessed) should then follow a predictable chain of events (if properly executed) to a logical and predictable conclusion.


Wow. I agree with this now. I don't want too many random elements in the game.

  • 04.30.2010 11:23 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

I think having the color of the visor be directly correlated to the AA would be an easy and efficient way to be able to tell players' current AAs apart.

  • 04.30.2010 11:25 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Other Miscellaneous Observations

* The new-and-improved radar is superb for helping awareness, especially on highly-vertical maps like Sword Base

* The "location indicator" that tells you what part of the map you're currently in is excellent, though I don't typically pay much attention to it.

* Proximity voice is, in my opinion, too strong. I can hear players who are fairly far away and even players who are on different floors above or below me. If a floor is closed off, you shouldn't be able to hear players above or below you unless there is some kind of opening in the floor/ceiling.

* Connections and lag have been beautiful. I have not experienced any laggy games whatsoever, and host migrations are quick and painless. The network engineers have done an amazing job with the netcoding for this Beta, and I can't imagine how they can make it any better, though I'm sure they'll find a way.

* No visible skill ranks is a good change. I support it, I like it, and I feel a lot less pressure to perform in-game because of it. I think that the occasional month where I try for an Arena rank will be more than enough to fill my competitive desires :-)


Your comments are welcome and I'll respond to any questions or disagreements you may have :-)


to be honest, i agree with everything that you said, except one part.

the lack of visible rank gives me no reason to want to perform well, or even be a team player, as far as calling out etc.

the competitive edge in previous halo games was what made them for me, and while the ranking systems were not perfect and exploitable in halo 2 and 3, its disappointing that they gave up on it.

they fixed(or it seems so far anyways) the host system up beautifully, why cant they do that with the ranking system?

i feel like im stuck in one long boring social skirmish game, the only challenge we faced all nite was playing xconn and his team of semi pros, on covy slayer on powerhouse, every other team we faced offered no challenge, even the pro Broly Bro, add that to the fact that there is really no reward for doing well or doing bad, i have no motivation to succeed, ehich for me anyways, fueled the fun of h3 and h2

[Edited on 04.30.2010 11:31 AM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 11:27 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

I guess 11,559 games of Halo 2 does not warrant a Halo: Reach code. Oh well, my bro played 97 and got one so I'll just use his.

Posted by: oneindustriesusa
pretty good sum up of the beta so far.

However I disagree with the armor abilities being too random.

I think it adds a good dimension into the game. It steps away from the shoot first you win style of play.



Halo has never had that style of play, due to the fact that it takes multiple precision shots to take an opponent down.

The only thing AA's like armor lock do is delay the lesser skilled player from dying. It is useless.

  • 04.30.2010 11:27 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: The 13th Arbiter
First off, good review. Is it monday yet? No? Damn.

Second, I don't think the grenades are the problem so much as the movement speed is. You say that you can see the grenades coming, but are unable to avoid them. That seems to me like it could be fixed better by speeding up players than by reducing grenade damage, because grenades (in my opinon) need to be powerful to counteract camping.
Thanks. You raise a really good point about player movement. This could definitely be a way to counteract the more powerful grenades. The only thing I don't particularly love is that players who are clearly inaccurate with grenades are still getting kills because of the huge blast radius.

Another problem that I haven't run across myself is one of suicides: players are throwing grenades and the blast radius is so big that it is killing them -- especially if they're already weak. I can't even count how many times I received credit for a kill 10 or 12 seconds after the last time I shot the guy (if, say, he ran around a corner or into another room) because the guy threw a grenade and killed himself. And that's not an exaggeration -- it literally happened so many times yesterday that I lost count.

Third, I can see the sprint/melee combination becoming this games version of the Tac Knife/Lightweight/Marathon/Commando class. That is worrying. Yes, it is a bit worrisome but at least for purposes of the Beta after 1 day, I didn't see any extraordinarily long kill-streaks by players using these kinds of combinations. I did get a triple-kill using the Elite Roll with the Grav Hammer, though.

Edit: How is aiming? Did they do away with the Aim Accleraton from Halo 3?Aiming is smooth and intuitive. I have not noticed aim acceleration, but to be honest, I haven't tested for it either. I'll check that out tonight :-)

  • 04.30.2010 11:27 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: x Foman123 x
* Connections and lag have been beautiful. I have not experienced any laggy games whatsoever, and host migrations are quick and painless. The network engineers have done an amazing job with the netcoding for this Beta, and I can't imagine how they can make it any better, though I'm sure they'll find a way.

This is one of my favorite improvements. It's virtually lag-free, whereas Halo 3 was starting to become more lag compensation than game.

  • 04.30.2010 11:28 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

The Crimson Empire! No Haterz. No Problem.

Well... Bungie did say they wanted to be more "real world" so I guess this is the new look they're going for.

  • 04.30.2010 11:28 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

"I like the Battle Rifle, but I can survive without it. A good player uses all of his assets that are available to him. " - Blue Max70

So true...

I love it when the moderators give their opinion in this style. Although I do not agree with everything you said (Please note that I have NOT played the Beta, but I have watched COUNTLESS rendered videos here on B.net).

  • 04.30.2010 11:28 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

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Posted by: urk
Then there are the people who poop in the mash potatoes. Those people get launched out on their asses.

My only major issues right now are the text size and boldness both in game and in the menus. In game I cannot even see the locations, and its hard to differentiate what grenade I'm using.

The font in the menu seems so small. I know I'm getting along in years, but it's very eye straining.

  • 04.30.2010 11:30 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

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Sprint can be used in an offensive or defensive way.
Active Camo can be used in offense or defense.
Jetpack can be used for offense or defense.

Armor lock needs to be changed so it can be used offensively or defensively, otherwise it is a limited ability.

My thoughts. Very good read Foman.

[Edited on 04.30.2010 11:31 AM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 11:30 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Alien slavers or fanatical religious aliens, they all bleed in bright colors. Like a box of 64 color crayons when you hit it with a flame-thrower. - Tozt anyone?

* Meet the Ninjas - * Read the Rules - * Recon's Rant

Avatar courtesy of Olole, derived from the art of Craig Mullins and Bungie Studios.

Posted by: statoose
I love it when the moderators give their opinion in this style. Although I do not agree with everything you said (Please note that I have NOT played the Beta, but I have watched COUNTLESS rendered videos here on B.net).

When we're not being short and snippy jerks, we can put on our fair-minded hats and pretend to be decent people.

Shhhh. Don't tell anyone.

  • 04.30.2010 11:30 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: [none]
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thou in faith shall keep us safe whilst we find the path.

The review seems to have many valid points...but if so, I'm sad halo's run n gun is gone or lessened.

  • 04.30.2010 11:31 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas